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OK... for the cube decorating contest this dumb 'ho' thought it would be funny to decorate as the Jonestown massacre. complete with cauldron of coolaid, and if you didnt drink it she would shoot you with a watergun. I told her it was a bad idea. then I showed ppl in her cube why, because they didnt know the story. looking at those pics made me email her, just to let her know.. You dont even have to read the following.. I just have to get it out of my system..
Thanx
K
Me:
You know. Just looking at those pics were a bit upsetting. And I just don’t think it’s a good idea. To me it’s akin to making fun of the Jewish Holocaust. How comfy would you be doing that? Yeah... it’s not sitting well with me. And Im really surprised that it was ok with Anne.
Please rethink it.
Her:
I’m sorry you were upset by photos (I’m assuming you’re referring to pictures online of Jonestown?) but I have a real problem with comparing Jonestown to the Holocaust- the events are completely unrelated. One event was led a charismatic cult leader who convinced 900+/- people of different races to kill themselves in the name of their faith, the other event is systematic genocide of 6 +/-million people, the majority of whom were Jewish but a group which was also comprised Roma, physically disabled people, homosexuals, mentally disabled people, prisoners of war, and political dissidents( to name a few.) Jim Jones was seeking to create a communist paradise on Earth for his religious followers, while Hitler was attempting to engineer a master race. Both events are terrible but for very different reasons and I think that equating one with the other does a major disservice to human history; it belittles both experiences by reducing them to simply “terrible” and not taking into account the very real differences between them and their places in history. I have a problem in general with equating any large scale loss of human life to the Holocaust because it’s not a fair comparison.
That said, considering how close Jonestown is to recent Bay Area history and the possibility that someone here could have been directly effected by the tragedy, we have chosen to redesign our cube’s Halloween idea.
B
Me:
B.
I would have to question your issue with comparing Jonestown to the Jewish holocaust. The point being made is that they are BOTH sensitive issues that should not be up for Halloween mockery. I mentioned the Jewish Holocaust specifically, so you would understand the gravity of the situation you were about to create. It’s interesting that you conveniently miss the point.
“I have a problem in general with equating any large scale loss of human life to the Holocaust because it’s not a fair comparison.” This statement speaks directly to your ignorance of the history of the people that killed themselves in the name of faith. And perhaps explains the humor you find in it. The motivations were different, but the results were the same, despite the different scale. As you recognize with the bit about getting shot (with a watergun) for not drinking, you also know that many people killed did not drink willingly, or die for faith. You conveniently say they were of different races, a little research will show you that they were overwhelmingly mostly Black and poor. Whose history in this country began with the loss of OVER 6 million in the Middle Passage alone, not to mention continued atrocities like lynching, and destroying of whole cities, etc.
To assume the Jewish Holocaust is the worst “large scale loss of human life”, totally negates all kinds of tragedies that have happened and are happening in world histories, and shows a stark lack of knowledge of genocides that have happened all over the world through history. Native Americans, Rwanda , Darfur , etc. This lack is what actually does a disservice to human history.
Now, that said, I would hope that beyond the possibility of offending someone, there would be a little reverence and empathy for those that suffered trying to find hope from the constant injustices and injuries that befell them. The issues they were running from to live in a “communist paradise” still exist, by the way.
To paraphrase Elie Wiesel, to compare atrocities is to belittle them all. If you re read my original email, you’ll see that the only comparison I was making was to illustrate the horror that you found amusing. The rest was yours.
Thanx
K
Me:
You know. Just looking at those pics were a bit upsetting. And I just don’t think it’s a good idea. To me it’s akin to making fun of the Jewish Holocaust. How comfy would you be doing that? Yeah... it’s not sitting well with me. And Im really surprised that it was ok with Anne.
Please rethink it.
Her:
I’m sorry you were upset by photos (I’m assuming you’re referring to pictures online of Jonestown?) but I have a real problem with comparing Jonestown to the Holocaust- the events are completely unrelated. One event was led a charismatic cult leader who convinced 900+/- people of different races to kill themselves in the name of their faith, the other event is systematic genocide of 6 +/-million people, the majority of whom were Jewish but a group which was also comprised Roma, physically disabled people, homosexuals, mentally disabled people, prisoners of war, and political dissidents( to name a few.) Jim Jones was seeking to create a communist paradise on Earth for his religious followers, while Hitler was attempting to engineer a master race. Both events are terrible but for very different reasons and I think that equating one with the other does a major disservice to human history; it belittles both experiences by reducing them to simply “terrible” and not taking into account the very real differences between them and their places in history. I have a problem in general with equating any large scale loss of human life to the Holocaust because it’s not a fair comparison.
That said, considering how close Jonestown is to recent Bay Area history and the possibility that someone here could have been directly effected by the tragedy, we have chosen to redesign our cube’s Halloween idea.
B
Me:
B.
I would have to question your issue with comparing Jonestown to the Jewish holocaust. The point being made is that they are BOTH sensitive issues that should not be up for Halloween mockery. I mentioned the Jewish Holocaust specifically, so you would understand the gravity of the situation you were about to create. It’s interesting that you conveniently miss the point.
“I have a problem in general with equating any large scale loss of human life to the Holocaust because it’s not a fair comparison.” This statement speaks directly to your ignorance of the history of the people that killed themselves in the name of faith. And perhaps explains the humor you find in it. The motivations were different, but the results were the same, despite the different scale. As you recognize with the bit about getting shot (with a watergun) for not drinking, you also know that many people killed did not drink willingly, or die for faith. You conveniently say they were of different races, a little research will show you that they were overwhelmingly mostly Black and poor. Whose history in this country began with the loss of OVER 6 million in the Middle Passage alone, not to mention continued atrocities like lynching, and destroying of whole cities, etc.
To assume the Jewish Holocaust is the worst “large scale loss of human life”, totally negates all kinds of tragedies that have happened and are happening in world histories, and shows a stark lack of knowledge of genocides that have happened all over the world through history. Native Americans, Rwanda , Darfur , etc. This lack is what actually does a disservice to human history.
Now, that said, I would hope that beyond the possibility of offending someone, there would be a little reverence and empathy for those that suffered trying to find hope from the constant injustices and injuries that befell them. The issues they were running from to live in a “communist paradise” still exist, by the way.
To paraphrase Elie Wiesel, to compare atrocities is to belittle them all. If you re read my original email, you’ll see that the only comparison I was making was to illustrate the horror that you found amusing. The rest was yours.
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Re: Lawd I gets tired, so tired.....
Mon, October 15, 2007 - 2:59 PMWhat, does she want points for being able to distinguish Jonestown from the Holocaust? SO not a game show moment... -
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Re: Lawd I gets tired, so tired.....
Mon, October 15, 2007 - 4:14 PMand SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not the damned point.... -
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Re: Lawd I gets tired, so tired.....
Mon, October 15, 2007 - 7:33 PMMmm hmm!
get her a tiny blanket for her teensy, cold, disembodied heart... -
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Unsu...
Re: Lawd I gets tired, so tired.....
Mon, October 15, 2007 - 8:25 PMWhy do people think this sort of thing is Halloween folly AND think that they won't get any flack for it ?
Are tact and compassion dirty words? How would she feel if her family had been directly involved
in either of those situations? Forget the blanket....how about a big ass smack to the back of her empty head! -
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Re: Lawd I gets tired, so tired.....
Wed, October 17, 2007 - 9:57 PMi wonder about this person in general. . . .that she didn't have one atom of compassion or empathy in her heart to realize that this was a bad idea from the start. kinda tells me something about her character----
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